Yesterday, I wrote about Marvel's Summer contribution... and it sparked a bit of controversy. Mainly because of DC's event counter part... Flashpoint. I've been festering about my feelings towards Flashpoint for about a month... and what finally pushed me to the boiling over point was placing my DCBS order the other day. Honestly, it looks like a cool concept, but I have a few problems.So what is Flashpoint? (Here's the wiki entry)
Written by Geoff Johns and penciled by Andy Kubert, the series details an altered DC Universe in which only Barry Allen seems to be aware of very significant differences between the regular timeline and the altered one he awakes in, including Cyborg's place as the quintessential hero, Superman's apparent detention by the government, and Batman "spending his days running Wayne Casinos." Consisting of a limited five issue run, the series will also involve sixteen 3-issue mini series and a number of one shots with four having been announced for release in June. DC has also announced via the Flashpoint Friday Blog that Flash #12 will be the last in the series despite a thirteenth issue having been announced for sale on May 25 2011.So... here is where I weigh in. I'm very interested in this cross-over. I'm a huge fan of all things DC. I'm a Superman fan to the core. I'm love the JLA, and I love the continuity of the DCU. Geoff Johns has almost never let me down. Infinite Crisis, Superman, Hawkman, Green Lantern, Teen Titans, Flash, JSA, Booster Gold... and he has even made Aquaman interesting. The man is the backbone of DC. Andy Kubert isn't a slouch on pencils either. He's an artistic draw to the book, even if he's not quite the Superstar I'd want for the event. So with all that said... what is my beef with Flashpoint?
Dear DC... My BEEF!
Do you really, really expect me to buy the 5 part existing series, and 16 (three part) mini series and 4 one shots. That is 57 titles alone for Flashpoint. I'm sure I'm leaving some out. And this is NOT including the fact that DC will not be suspending their existing titles during this time. Do you realize... I can't afford that... but worse, comic shop owners won't buy all that. They will have no idea what will be good or bad, or what will sell and what won't. You are asking Mom & Pop shops to shell out cash... 3-6 months in advance to "guess" about a cross-over that we all basically know NOTHING about, and then ask your distributors to buy 57 titles that weren't there last month? And pray that the general public will buy some of it. That's bull and unfair! And for what... a cross-over based upon a character that has been nothing but late in its regular title. Barry is a character that has virtually been on hiatus since 1985. Flash is months late, and we are only getting pebbles of stories of what "could" be a really cool story. You know... It might be... It might. I hope it is. But don't F***ing make me choose what comics I normally get and 57 issues of what might be a great story. Why not suspend a few other books till this cross-over is complete? X-men's "Age of Apocalypse" and "House of M" "Heroes Reborn" all suspended their books until the cross-over was complete.
Look, DC. I find that I want a lot of these titles, most look really interesting. But I feel taken advantage of. You know that your loyal fans will pick up all of these titles. I'm a loyal fan, but don't force me to choose. Tracie posted some great thoughts about Fear Itself vs. Flashpoint, and I must say I completely agree. I don't feel forced to grab a million cross-over to get the gist of a story. I understand the name of the game is to make your fans want many books, but if you alienate your loyal monthly fans, you'll be pushing me and others away.
Well Robb there is always the converse. What about all the fans that would be pissed to have their regular titles suspended for 3-5 months while the event is taking place?
ReplyDeleteI think part of the problem is we have such a weird comic world now. Like you I place orders 2 months ahead. (Not DCBS though I have found a nice online shop that gives a 35% discount plus the functions of a full store.) We know too much and we expect to know it. The thing is that system is starting to crack and something has to be done. I am probably wrong on this account but I do expect Flashpoint to be the last big hurrah before the line gets scaled back.
The problem is that there is simply too much product. In July there are 69 DCU books (Marvel has 81) and that doesn't include the various imprints either. And with some of the rumors swirling around the post Flashpoint DCU it would be a great chance to get rid of some of the bloat. No matter what you think about Bob Harras he knows first hand what this bloat can do to a publisher. And due the news of recent editorial hires (namely a new associate Batman editor) I see DC starting to trim away some of the overgrowth to go along with the renumbering.
But that is EXACTLY what i'm saying I want to have happen. Suspend those titles, in, like they did in Age of Apocalypse. Or House of M. This is a major cross-over with a tons of side stories that you can't tell me aren't integral for the overall story. Guess I'll have to drop walking Superman.
ReplyDeleteAnd DCBS has been nothing but great. I know there are many out there with great deals, but I have NOTHING bad to say about DCBS. They are always communicating when a book is late that it will be on my next shipment, they have incredible deals each month to lure you onto a new book. usually 75% off to try it out. I love the local comic shops. But DCBS has been great!
But Again my complaint is on the side of the comicshop owner who has to buy ALL THESE TITLES and has no idea what will sell. So all they can do is hope people won't wait till all this crap ends up in their quarter bins. And they don't lose because DC says this is the must buy event.
But that is true about any title outside the few "guarantees". I mean look at Marvel's ".1 initiative" that was suppose to be the next big thing but the numbers have been rather flat. Also from what I hear DC is somewhat better than Marvel when it comes to dealing with stores. For instance I heard they do occasionally offer returns unlike Marvel.
ReplyDeleteAlso all in all with recent cancellations DC only added about 10 titles to it's monthly slate with the Flashpoint miniseries. More than likely most of these titles are going to be low performers, but if any really catch fire DC has been good with second printings as of late.
Also I think the reason they aren't going to cancel/replace/tie-in route is that they are letting all the current titles run their due course since the rumblings are that the entire line is due for a major revamp. I mean the recent Wonder Woman and Superman JMS revamps plus the stuff like villainous Titans will finish up by the end of Flashpoint . As will the Brightest Day Aftermath: The Search and War of Green Lanterns Aftermath. Then there is confirmed, more or less, fall launches for Batwoman and Static Shock. Right now at DC we are having the last remains of the DiDio era playing out and after Flashpoint we will get to see what Harras has to offer.
The thing is I like having full shop options. If need be they can hold an order for me and I can get backissues. That is important to me since unlike you Omaha guys I don't have even a single shop less than 45 minutes away.
I understand what you are getting at, I do. But I'm a collector and a comic reader. And I feel taken advantage of because they know people like me will get most of these books. I am incredibly interested in this story... I just can't afford to get all of it.
ReplyDeleteAlso if I could pose it from another angle. Doesn't it lessen the impact of a story that takes place in an alternate timeline, if the "normal" timeline is goiing on at the same time? Doesn't that lessen the impact or the severity of the bad things going on if it feels and is treated like an Elseworlds story, rather than a storyline that impacts each individual book? If you suspend the existing title... it feels more serious and doesn't cost me 57 more books?
Alas, it is the summer and we are going to be hit with more books. That's the nature of comics. But I wish DC would have just spread it out or been a little more consumer friendly.
Honestly I don't mind alternate realities, actually they are some of my favorite stories. In my view they actually end up meaning more since in those stories radical things can happen and won't be undone later on. I mean when both Batman and Captain America died did anyone even for a second feel like either one would last? Plus I enjoy altered takes on heroes in general.
ReplyDeleteAlso honestly I don't mind what DC is doing here. I like a lot more than how Marvel double ships so often now or floods the last week of the month.
Plus the thing I admit to having a hard time understand your side because I am radically different. I don't collect runs or stories so much as things that interest me or I find odd. I mean when ever I get the chance to buy a bunch of old comics it usually something like a New Universe or Marvel UK run. I own a complete run of Kicker's, INC. (got that at Dragon's Lair by the way) and my next major purchase is going to be all the Tangent Comics titles.
On the flipside though I average spending less than $20 a month on new comics. Without a doubt I love comics but I also treat them as I do any other vice. I mean I only eat fast food at most 4 times a month. I don't drink caffeine except for a soda once or twice a month. I honestly can't understand your view on this.
I really feel for Robb because he's way more passionate about the DC Universe than I am and this type of event has to be both VERY attractive and very frightening because his level of dedication comes at a (financial) cost.
ReplyDeleteTrue, nobody HAS to buy ANYTHING. DC isn't forcing you to buy 16+ tie-ins. But they ARE tempting you to. They do want our money and they want us to buy as many comics as we can/are willing. It's the nature of any business.
It's almost worse for guys who do their orders online because you're having to select in advance which books you think you'll want to read, whereas I can walk into the store and, baring any sell-outs, can flip through the issue and decide if my interest is really there or not.
That said, there are really only (*only?*) 7 or 8 minis's, outside of the core Flashpoint book, that I really feel like I'll be interested enough in. But that's just based on the solicitations and the creative teams assigned. I'll be in trouble if, after reading Flashpoint, I decide that this universe's versions of Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Hal Jordan and the like are something I'm actually interested in. On the surface, though, I'm not. My interest in them only goes as far as the core book.
As it stands right now, I'll be getting:
Flashpoint: Batman Knight of Vengeance (1-3)
Flashpoint: Frankenstein and the Creatures of the Unknown (1-3)
Flashpoint: Citizen Cold (1-3)
Flashpoint: Lois Lane and the Resistance (1-3)
Flashpoint: Kid Flash Lost starring Bart Allen (1-3)
Flashpoint: Project Superman (1-3)
Flashpoint: Reverse Flash (One Shot)
and MAYBE Flashpoint: The World of Flashpoint (1-3)because I DO like Traci 13.
You both have reasonable arguements... And Blue Saint, you couldn't be more correct with Marvel's double shipping. 4 books in 2 months is ridiculous. And yeah, many times the .1 series has been hit or miss, but helped to pad the Marvel Wallet. Both major companies do this.
ReplyDeleteAnd Tracie is right, I'm totally passionate on all things DC. Top that off with me being a Comic reading collector. I collect DC good & bad. (Ask about my Soverign Seven Collection) I'm a "completist" of sorts. I still support the local comic shops as much as I can. So yes, I am at fault for supporting DC when they throw junk at me and I still buy it. Justice League America has been bad for over a year now... and I still pick it up because I need to know whats going on in the DCU.
Having said that, I'm getting better. I dropped a few, but I'll still quarter bin those some day.
All I ask is that DC show more concern for their audience's finances. Drawing the line at 2.99 was a start. But couldn't they have done something better in this cross-over? And cancelling R.E.B.E.L.S. wasn't my idea of trimming the overall fat. That book rocked!
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ReplyDeleteI'm going to have to disagree with all y'all.
ReplyDeleteThe Marvel double-ships don't bother me any because I'm getting more of books that I love. I've honestly never looked at one of the double-ships and thought "UGH, another one of THESE?"
Honestly, the best time I had buying comics was when Ultimate Spider-Man was double shipping nearly every month.
Now, it's certainly not something I could afford to do with all of my books (despite cutbacks, I still buy quite a lot of comics week-to-week) but there are exceptions. Books like USM that I loved so much, I was delighted to have new issues come out faster.
If I really thought about it, there are some books I read which I don't think I would enjoy as much if they shipped more than once a month and maybe that says something about my enjoyment of those titles being on the low end but I haven't seen this practice being abused thus far and so I'm perfectly fine more issues of some of my favorite comics to look forward to.
I don't really get why the Point One books have become a target of derision. I think it was a fine attempt at providing a new jumping on point for readers without doing a complete renumbering/relaunch. If sales success on these issues isn't evident, then perhaps it was just not marketed heavily enough or they weren't given a clear enough indicator on the cover that issue's accessability.
I think the only misstep in Point One was the rare occurences where the issue in question did not actually feature the regular creative team. Specifically the Thor Point One. It was a beautifully drawn book and an accessable story by Abnett and Lanning, but the real benefit of the Point One would seem to be to draw readers in to the work of the creators actually on the book. I think the only reason for this was that it came right before Fraction and Coipel relaunched a new Thor #1 and Gillen and Braithwaite took over the retitled Journey to Mystery. It almost makes the idea of a Thor Point One a mute point(one) but the issue does work as a "This is who Thor is, this is what he's like, if you enjoy this, read these new launches starring Thor" which sort of gives the reader three opportunities to jump on.
The rest of the Point Ones I've read have been strong first issues to new storylines by quality creative teams and I really think that's all anyone was going for.
First off Robb, if you ever what to get rid of Soverign Seven I will buy it off of you since I like Claremont.
ReplyDeleteFirst off I hate the Point One books because of the name and how numbering means nothing anymore for Marvel (looking at you too Deadpool #900 and Wolverine #1000). Plus it is total bait and switch on consumers. Almost every .1 is for $3.99 book. The worse was during the initial announcement they were purposely vague with regular issue pricing.
Most of my current issues with Marvel outside the mess they have made of the X-Men centers around their business practices with a particular on price. I dropped Uncanny X-Men due to comments from Axel Alonso about how despite advertising backup stories to justify the increase in price they just dropped them because they figured people would keep buying the title anyway. It was at that moment I came to hate Alonso.
The problem with double shipping and clustering releases is that puts stress on stores and the costumers. Look at this way a double shipment makes a store have doubled amount of risk on a title for that month. And with the economy still recovering (not helped by the recent gas and food hikes) many people will find it harder to justify spending $6-8 dollars on a title which will then leave the store with two unsold copies. Same thing with the massive end of month shipments Marvel has been doing as of late.
Right now despite not being perfect I do feel DC is doing a better job of keeping the retailers and the consumers in mind.